Effect of amen after Vala Zalin (2)

Zahabi, the Sunni well known scientist, has written about the translation of Abu Harire
عن السائب بن يزيد : سمع عمر يقول لأبي هريرة : لتتركن الحديث عن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ، أو لألحقنك بأرض دوس ! .
Saeb Ben Yazid heard from Umar that he said to Abu Harire'' if you do not quit narrating Hadith from the prophet, I will exile you to the Dus Land (the birth place of Abu Harire).
If Abu Harire had narrated the Hadiths that he had heard from the prophet of the Islam, why wouldn't Umar have prevented him from this action and have threatened him to exile? Was it possible that Umar punished the companion of the messenger of God without any faults from him?
Abu Harire has confessed in another narration '' if the Haiths that I am narrating now had narrated in the time of Umar, he would have broken my head
عن ابن عجلان : أن أبا هريرة كان يقول : إني لأحدث أحاديث ، لو تكلمت بها في زمن عمر ، لشج رأسي .
Imam Ali (peace be upon him) considers Abu Harire a person that lies more than others:
Ibn Abi Al-Hadid Shafei, narrating from his master, Abu Jafar Eskafi, has written:
عن علي عليه السلام أنه قال : ألا إن أكذب الناس ، أو قال : أكذب الاحياء ، على رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله أبو هريرة الدوسي .
Imam Ali (peace be upon him) bade '' be aware of persons that lie a lot and he also bade '' Abu Harire Dusi is a person that lies a lot among us to the messenger of God (peace of Allah be upon him and his descendants).
Abu Harire was Modles:
One of matters that all of the Sunni scientists agree unanimously is that Abu Harire was Modles and remarks that he heard from others attributed to the messenger of God ( peace of Allah be upon him and his descendants).
Zahabi has written about the translation of Abu Harire:
قال يزيد بن هارون : سمعت شعبة يقول : كان أبو هريرة يدلس .
After Ibn Kasir Dameshghi Selfi narrated this remark, he has written the kind of deception of Abu Harire:
He narrated whatever he heard from the prophet or Kaab, but he did not care about attributing a remark to its narrator and he attributed the remark of a person to another person (Ibn Asaker has written this matter).
Hence, according to this remark, Shoabe refers to this Hadith from him which he said '' if someone wakes up in the morning and feels that janb has been, his or her fast will not be accepted.Then he said '' I heard this Hadith from a narrator, but I have not heard from the messenger of God (peace of Allah be upon him and his descendants).
After Zahabi narrated this narration, he has said about justification of deception of Abu Harire
قلت : تدليس الصحابة كثير ، ولا عيب فيه ؛ فإن تدليسهم عن صاحب أكبر منهم ؛ والصحابة كلهم عدول .
Companions deceived a lot and there is no problem with them because they learned this way from an older companion. The companions were all fair.
This remark is nonsense and the opposite of search because maybe the ignored person may be a person that God has recommended in the Quran in this way
وَ مِمَّنْ حَوْلَكُمْ مِنَ الْأَعْرابِ مُنافِقُونَ وَ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْمَدينَةِ مَرَدُوا عَلَى النِّفاقِ لا تَعْلَمُهُمْ نَحْنُ نَعْلَمُهُمْ ...
Certain of the desert Arabs round about you are hypocrites, as well as (desert Arabs) among the Medina folk: they are obstinate in hypocrisy: thou knowest them not. At-Tawba Surah/ verse 101
Or he be some persons such as Valid Ben Aghabe that God has bade about
يا أَيُّهَا الَّذينَ آمَنُوا إِنْ جاءَكُمْ فاسِقٌ بِنَبَإٍ فَتَبَيَّنُوا أَنْ تُصيبُوا قَوْماً بِجَهالَةٍ فَتُصْبِحُوا عَلى‏ ما فَعَلْتُمْ نادِمينَئ
O ye who believe! If a wicked person comes to you with any news, ascertain the truth, lest ye harm people unwittingly, and afterwards become full of repentance for what ye have done. Al-Hujuraat Surah/ verse 6
Khatib Baghdadi has said about different kinds of deception:
Deception has three kinds; each of them can be enough to disapprove modles and degrade his rank.The third kind of deception is that modles does not mention persons around him and a person that has narrated Hadith from him because he knows that such person in the document makes Hadith unreliable. Or lack of mentioning name makes listener fancy that this Hadith has high document which is against justice, the religion of narrator and purposes of learning science.
The rule of deception from the point of view of the Sunni scientists:
Khatib Baghdadi, one of the Sunni famous scientists, has said about the rule of deception
سمعت الشافعي ، يقول : قال شعبة بن الحجاج : « التدليس أخو الكذب »
Shoabe Ben Hojaj has said '' deception is the brother of lie''.
سمعت شعبة ، يقول : « التدليس في الحديث أشد من الزنا ولأن أسقط من السماء أحب إلي من أن أدلس »
I heard that Shoabe said '' if I commit adultery, it is better to cheat''.
سمعت أبا أسامة يقول : « خرب الله بيوت المدلسين ما هم عندي إلا كذابون »
I heard from Aba Asame that he said '' God destroys the house of Modlesin. In my opinion, they are only liars''.

In spite of the mentioned matters, how can we reason to the narrations of Abu Harire?

This matter has caused that some of the Sunni dignitaries do not act to all narrations of Abu Harire. Ibn Kasir Dameshghi Selfi in the book ''Al-Bedaye Al-Nahaye'' and Zehbi in the book ''Seir Alam Al-Nebla'' have written

Sharik narrated from Moghayere and he narrated from Ibrahim that they said '' our companions gave the narrations of Abu Harire and they did not narrate them''. Hamu has also said '' our friends saw things in the Hadiths of Abu Harire that were opposite and they did consider all of his Hadiths worth narrating except the narrations about the description of the hell and the heaven or they encouraged to decent and good actions and prevented from bad actions which the Quran has also prohibited.

The narrations of Sonan Ibn Maje:

Sonan Ebn Maje has said These narrations in the book '' Al-Sala and Al-Sane/ chapter: Al-Jahr Belamin''.

The first narration:

903 ، حَدَّثَنَا عُثْمَانُ بْنُ أَبِى شَيْبَةَ حَدَّثَنَا حُمَيْدُ بْنُ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَنِ حَدَّثَنَا ابْنُ أَبِى لَيْلَى عَنْ سَلَمَةَ بْنِ كُهَيْلٍ عَنْ حُجَيَّةَ بْنِ عَدِىٍّ عَنْ عَلِىٍّ قَالَ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ ،صلى الله عليه وسلم، إِذَا قَالَ (وَلاَ الضَّالِّينَ) قَالَ « آمِينَ ».
Hojie Ben Edi has narrated from Imam Ali (peace be upon him) '' I heard that the messenger of God (peace of Allah be upon him and his descendants) bade '' amen'' after Va La Zalin''.

Bashar Ovad has said about this narration in the book '' Sharh Sonan Ibn Maje''

إسناده ضعيف لضعف حميد بن عبدالرحمن بن أبي ليلى فإنّه كان سيّئ الحفظ جداً .

The document of this Hadith is weak because Hamid Ben Abd Al-Rahman Ben Abi Leili did not have a good memory.

Abdulah Ben Edi has said about Abd Al-Rahman Ben Abi Leili

وهذا كله يؤتي عن ابن أبي ليلى من سوء حفظه كما قال شعبة : ما رأيت أسوأ حفظا من بن أبي ليلى .
All of these narrations from Ben Abi Leili that did not have a good memory and could not keep them as Shoabe has said about him '' I have never seen a person with weak memory like Ben Abi Leili''.

In addition, Dar Ghatani has written about him after he has narrated a narration

والاضطراب في هذا من بن أبي ليلى لأنه كان سئ الحفظ والمشهور عنه حديث حجية بن عدي قال شعبة ما رأيت أسوأ حفظا من بن أبي ليلى ثنا بن صاعد قال ثنا عمرو بن علي سمعت أبا داود يقول سمعت شعبة يقول ما رأيت أسوأ حفظا من بن أبي ليلى .
Anxiety can be observed because Hamid Ben Abd Al-Rahman Ben Abi Leili did not have a good memory.

The second narration:
حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الصَّبَّاحِ وَعَمَّارُ بْنُ خَالِدٍ الْوَاسِطِىُّ قَالاَ حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ عَيَّاشٍ عَنْ أَبِى إِسْحَاقَ عَنْ عَبْدِ الْجَبَّارِ بْنِ وَائِلٍ عَنْ أَبِيهِ قَالَ صَلَّيْتُ مَعَ النَّبِىِّ ،صلى الله عليه وسلم، فَلَمَّا قَالَ (وَلاَ الضَّالِّينَ ). قَالَ « آمِينَ ». فَسَمِعْنَاهَا مِنْهُ .904
Jabar BeN Vael has narrated from his father '' we were prayer with the prophet When the messenger of God (peace of Allah be upon him and his descendants) recited Vala Al-Zalin, he said amen loudly.

Bashar Ovad has said about in the book '' Sharh Sonan Ibn Maje'' after he narrated this Hadith
إسناده ضعيف لانقطاعه ، عبدالجبار بن وائل بن حجر لم يسمع من أبيه .

The document of Hadith is weak because first, it is segmented and second, Abd Al-Jabar has not heard Hadith from his father and hearing from him is not fixed as it has been said in the remark of Mezi in the following sentence.

Mezi has written in the book '' Tahzib Al-Kamal'' in his translation

وقال عباس الدوري ، عن يحيى بن معين : ثبت ، ولم يسمع من أبيه شيئاً

In addition, Muhammad Ben Ismaeil Bokhari has written

قال لي ابن حجر وولد عبد الجبار بعد موت أبيه بستة أشهر

Abd Al-Jabar was born six months after the death of his father.

Ibn Haban has said in the book '' Al-Majruhin''
وأما عبد الجبار بن وائل فإنه ولد بعد موت أبيه بستة أشهر ، مات وائل بن حجر وأم عبد الجبار حامل به ، وهذا ضرب من المنقطع الذي لا تقوم به الحجة ، وقد وهم فطر بن خليفة حيث قال : على أبى إسحاق عن عبد الجبار بن وائل قال : سمعت أبي .

Abd Al-Jabar was born six months after the death of his father because his mother was pregnant when his father died. Hence, there is Ighta in narrating Hadith from his father and this make the Hadiths worthless.

Hence, all of the narrations of Ibn Maje, whether from Abi Harire or others, are weak and they have no value for reason.

The narrations of Sonan Abi Davud:

Abi Davud has said this narration in the book '' Al-Sala''/ chapter Al-Tamin Khalf Al-Emam and in the first volume of the book ''Sonan''

The first narration:
933 ، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ كَثِيرٍ أَخْبَرَنَا سُفْيَانُ عَنْ سَلَمَةَ عَنْ حُجْرٍ أَبِى الْعَنْبَسِ الْحَضْرَمِىِّ عَنْ وَائِلِ بْنِ حُجْرٍ قَالَ كَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ ،صلى الله عليه وسلم، إِذَا قَرَأَ ( وَلاَ الضَّالِّينَ) قَالَ « آمِينَ ». وَرَفَعَ بِهَا صَوْتَهُ.
Whenever the messenger of God (peace of Allah be upon him and his descendants) recited Vala Al-Zalin, he said amen loudly.

Sofyan Suri was Modles:

Sofyan Suri has been in the document of this narration. He was modles and the kind of his deception was'' paying bill''. It has been said about the definition of this kind of deception
ربّما يسقط ... أو اسقط غيره ضعيفاً أو صغيراً تحسيناً للحديث .

From time to time, he omitted some parts of Hadith or another person did it because that person was weak or small.
Ebn Ghatan has said about this kind of deception
وهو شرّ أقسامه .
This is the worst kind of deception.
Siuti has also added
قال الخطيب وكان الأعمش وسفيان الثوري يفعلون مثل هذا قال العلائي وبالجملة فهذا النوع أفحش أنواع التدليس مطلقا وشرها قال العراقي وهو قادح فيمن تعمد فعله وقال شيخ الإسلام لا شك أنه جرح وإن وصف به الثوري والأعمش فلا اعتذار أنهما لا يفعلانه إلا في حق من يكون ثقة عندهما ضعيفا عند غيرهما .
Khatib Baghdadi has said '' Amash and Sofyan Suri have omitted some parts of the Hadith''. Alaei has said '' the last remark is that this kind of deception is the worst and the ugliest one''. Iraqi has said '' everyone that does such action on purpose will degrade his narration and his narration cannot be reliable. Sheikh Al-Eslam( Ebn Hajar Asghalani) has said '' there is no question that deception '' paying bill'' degrades Hadith or narration and if Sofyan Suri or Amesh have infected in using this kind of deception, this excuse cannot be accepted that if a person says that they have applied this kind of deception about a person that was reliable for them, but they were weak for them.